Report 371
Report #371 Skillset: Tracking Skill: Pit Org: Ur'Guard Status: Completed May 2010 Furies' Decision: Solution 1 Problem: In it's current state, pits are allowing to much advantage in groups and even solo fighting with how easy it is to take out targetted individuals and keep them pitted throughout an entire fight, or in many cases, refalling into the same pit over and over. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Make it so you are not able to reconceal a pit while someone is in it 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Make is so forced movement does not trigger traps from firing (Fearaura, gust, mountkick, tackle, charge, barge, demense effects that move, etc) Player Comments: ---on 5/1 @ 00:38 writes: #2 just isn't going to fly IMO. #1 on the other hand makes sense: It should be hard to hide a pit when someone is -OBVIOUSLY- in it (it even shows on Look, so you'd think that would be an indication of pit-i-ness). ---on 5/1 @ 22:57 writes: Yeah, it would be harder to go with #2, as then a tracker is very limited in how they get people in their pits. The main issue we have seen is fearaura in use with pits, where it literally keeps you pitted with under a second to respond before you hit the pit again. ---on 5/2 @ 02:57 writes: The second solution would severely hamper whatever singular potential Trackers would have in the use of their traps in an offensive situation, so no thanks for that. Solution one is understandable. ---on 5/2 @ 20:08 writes: Yes to #1, no to #2. For the reasons stated above. (Particularly Xenthos', that made me chuckle.) Especially not being able to tackle into a pit would make things very challenging. And while pits may be powerful, tracking as a whole is a bit on the lackluster side, so in the wider context, let's avoid that hit to the usefulness. #1 makes more sense anyway. ---on 5/3 @ 02:30 writes: Solution #1's objective is to make it so multiple people can't fall into the same pit. If that's the case, we can keep reconcealing as it is. Just make it so that people can't fall into pits with someone already inside. ---on 5/3 @ 17:16 writes: There are two reasons for my suggested change to Solution #1. First, the timing would be tedious if it required the tracker to wait until the victim climbs out. Second, if the target is shrouded, the tracker would not be able to see when their target successfully climb up. ---on 5/6 @ 21:51 writes: Another solution that was mentioned was pit immunity upon exiting a pit, much similar to stun immunity with perhaps a slight variation in time. ---on 5/6 @ 23:45 writes: I like solution 1 better than that suggestion from a flavor standpoint, mostly... if I've recently fallen in a pit and would otherwise be dumb enough to fall in it again, it doesn't make much sense to simply glide over the top. ---on 5/7 @ 15:37 writes: Actually, now I am starting to wonder if such a change is even warranted. Tracking is terrible as it is, especially with the recent nerf to pits (RockClimbing). I have also noticed that the envoy that submitted this report was a longtime Tracker who has switched classes right after. ---on 5/7 @ 17:30 writes: I agree with the not being able to reconceal while someone is still in the pit. It makes no sense at all and the ease with which pits can be used indefinately (meaning till someone of a higher skill level removed the pit which can be problematic in itself to find) more than makes up for the loss in concealing while someone is in the pit. ---on 5/7 @ 21:07 writes: Agreed with number 1, someone in a pit should make it non-concealable, since they're trying to get out and stuff, you'd just see/hear it. ---on 5/16 @ 06:05 writes: I personally feel that this fix while a start is not near enough of a fix to pittrap. With the current use of pittrap as seen over the last few months this fix merely means the reconceal happens after the person climbs out, and in effect solves nothing. I would like to see something more substantial such as, pittrap has a limited amount of times it can be used, or most (if not all) forced movement will not set off the trap. ---on 5/18 @ 06:52 writes: I highly disagree with Inagin's claim that 'tracking is terrible'. Pits remain one of the lamest things in Lusternian combat, even with rockclimbing. Both of the above solutions are good ideas, particularly solution 2. Another good idea I picked up from a prominent tracker is to make pits not allow you to target the pitted person, but they take you out of combat for longer. For example, the time to climb out could be raised from 6 to 12 seconds, or you could be required to SCALE PIT several times to get out, taking a few seconds balance each time. That, or make it so you have to JUMP INTO PIT to attack the person inside, and only allow 1 other person into the pit. ---on 5/19 @ 06:32 writes: Pits may be lame, yes. Tracking is not terrible? You have to be kidding. Fillin's idea is actually fine if pits were changed that way too. However, I would feel that Tracking would need something else as it is very lacking (currently it's all pits, pits, pits, and an occasional springtrap). Please compare Hunting/Tracking to Totems or Rituals and their specializations. ---on 5/20 @ 05:07 writes: While I do think there is some legitimacy in stating that tracking may be "terrible," that argument is in no way a justification for not fixing an imbalanced skill. The quality of a skillset is less important than fixing combat, and indeed, it's not like we as envoys can't submit other changes to improve tracking. Fixing pits is a good thing, just as addressing other skills would be a boon. I support solution 2 of the two provided, but I wouldn't mind pursing Fillin's idea of forcing the pitted person out of combat longer with that person being untargetable. ---on 5/21 @ 05:23 writes: Fillin's idea is certainly a neat idea. I would support this too. ---on 5/21 @ 06:29 writes: Eh, I can agree on the "lame" comment but not so much on the "imbalanced skill". All organizations have trackers if you're talking about group combat. If you're talking about 1v1, I think the tracker is actually at a disadvantage (versus having a totems or ritual spec), even if the target falls into the pit more than once. ---on 5/21 @ 06:53 writes: Imo, tracking only needs tweaks to one or two skills in order to be solid, bloodthirst in particular. With poisonexpert and the companion (though it still dies too easily), tracking is a pretty nice offensive spec. Anyway, I know the admin generally like to take baby steps, but if they hate pits as much as everyone else does, another thing to consider, in addition to one of the previously mentioned solutions, would be to greatly increase the balance time it takes to lay a pit. For a trap that you can re-use an indefinate amount of times, you can lay them ridiculously fast. That, or make them one-shot traps like all the others.